What does God expect?

[Desperate62]

Hi, everyone, I'd like to bring up a subject that I never see or hear mentioned by Christians, and that is the matter of disability. It's been bothering me for quite some time and whenever I try and ask anyone in Christian circles about it I just get ignored and they just avoid it which is not on, as it needs to be dealt with. And of course there is lots of different kinds of disabilities, and lots of different levels too, and I have several including learning disability, and I find the very thought of academic learning far too overwhelming, just like I do with all manner of grown up stuff, but I can spell and use proper grammar, and I can do basic calculations and arithmetic etc. and I do have various practical abilities including plumbing, electrics, old fashioned analogue electronics, woodwork, decorating, small building repairs etc. and when I was much younger I fitted several kitchens and bathroom suites for my parents and I totally rewired two houses and two floors of a church. And I have a friend who I've known longer than anyone who unlike me can drive and used to work, he also doesn't have academic ability and has trouble spelling and like me is more the practical type with a range of practical skills. And although he's not Christian he has started attending regular Christian events. And I also can't help noticing how so many other Christians are elite academics, but surely there must also be plenty more who are not, so I'd like to start the ball rolling and ask the question what does God expect? Does he expect us all to have top ability, or can anyone who is learning disabled be accepted as they are, after all there is an old worship song that says "Jesus take me as I am, I can come no other way". And someone on Sonlife is sat there announcing to the viewers "you have everything you need" to go and spread the word, and of course he's an academic too, an all round huge success and is obviously miles out of touch with reality and obviously lives in some kind of dream world where everyone is like him, but the reality is very different, what about me, I have multiple appalling disabilities like being absolutely TORTURED by adult exuberance and being forcibly heated right up to INSANE proportions, and being far too overwhelmed etc. so I can hardly even function as a human being, never mind go out and preach to anyone, honestly assumption really is the mother of all foul-ups and far too many of the normal successful crowd just assume that everyone is just like them. And didn't Jesus say that his message would confound the wise, but be simple enough for little kids to understand.

 

[Toneboy]

I knew someone very wise who pointed out that God expected us to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly after our God (Micah 6:8).

You certainly don't have to be a superstar academic, God loves you just the way you are.

 

[Desperate62]

I knew someone very wise who pointed out that God expected us to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly after our God (Micah 6:8).

You certainly don't have to be a superstar academic, God loves you just the way you are.

Very reassuring, but isn't it the case that the Lord only gives his full Holy Spirit baptism to those who are fully fit and able, i.e. those who are able to fully mature and so easily be so miles above all manner of demanding grown up life commitments, like the typical mr. average? but not those like me who are so backward and so undeveloped, don't they only receive just the basic anointing that happens when they first commit themselves, and therefore cannot properly function as a Christian? or have I got it wrong? Doesn't the full anointing have to be earned? I know I have some degree of the Spirit as I can feel it sometimes as it moves me into floods of tears, like yesterday when I watched a preaching rally on youtube, and it was really good too, proper preaching the way it should be done, you can see it here:

 

[Who me]

but isn't it the case that the Lord only gives his full Holy Spirit baptism to those who are fully fit and able:

Where do you find this in the bible?

God uses those who are willing to serve.
Yes all the publicity, all the missionary biographies etc are about talented determined and fit people, but they don't tell the whole story.
Read biographies of famous preacher, missionaries, you'll find a comon theme in many of them, of a mother spending hours in prayer for her children. Women who had few opertunities other than that of wife and mother taught their children the bible, theology and prayed with them and for them.
You'll find this in the back of many biographies and accounts of revival of women praying and not jur the women.
We all cannot be Billy Grahams or who ever you admire, but we can all be evangelists to those we are with.

 

[Desperate62]

Where do you find this in the bible?

God uses those who are willing to serve.
Yes all the publicity, all the missionary biographies etc are about talented determined and fit people, but they don't tell the whole story.
Read biographies of famous preacher, missionaries, you'll find a comon theme in many of them, of a mother spending hours in prayer for her children. Women who had few opertunities other than that of wife and mother taught their children the bible, theology and prayed with them and for them.
You'll find this in the back of many biographies and accounts of revival of women praying and not jur the women.
We all cannot be Billy Grahams or who ever you admire, but we can all be evangelists to those we are with.

Like I said there is various levels of disability. What about those who are seriously backward with serious learning disability, who really struggle to achieve even basic primary education and never go to secondary school as it's way out of their league and ability? And what about those who cannot socialise and fit in with others and who cannot court or marry and haven't a hope of ever being a parent? What about those with limited mental capacity, how does such a person even get saved? And what if you're struck with a serious contagious virus which has no cure and cannot be sanitised with normal household chemicals and you therefore cannot even enter a church? And what if you find any adult reading and study far too overwhelming, and what if you're forcibly possessed by a hideously hateful evil spirit right from birth and you can't get rid of it and it holds you in a state of spiritual deadlock so you don't get the great life changing experience that other Christians always do and so often brag about? So how can any such person without such powerful experience possibly go out and preach or even witness and get anyone else saved? You need the full Holy Spirit baptism for that and surely you need to be fully fit and able to serve, so other folk can see you all happy and free without any worldly trappings like alcohol or drugs or smoking or gambling or filthy porn etc. or else you've no chance of getting even a single soul saved.

 

[Who me]

Like I said there is various levels of disability. What about those who are seriously backward with serious learning disability, who really struggle to achieve even basic primary education and never go to secondary school as it's way out of their league and ability? And what about those who cannot socialise and fit in with others and who cannot court or marry and haven't a hope of ever being a parent? What about those with limited mental capacity, how does such a person even get saved? And what if you're struck with a serious contagious virus which has no cure and cannot be sanitised with normal household chemicals and you therefore cannot even enter a church? And what if you find any adult reading and study far too overwhelming, and what if you're forcibly possessed by a hideously hateful evil spirit right from birth and you can't get rid of it and it holds you in a state of spiritual deadlock so you don't get the great life changing experience that other Christians always do and so often brag about? So how can any such person without such powerful experience possibly go out and preach or even witness and get anyone else saved? You need the full Holy Spirit baptism for that and surely you need to be fully fit and able to serve, so other folk can see you all happy and free without any worldly trappings like alcohol or drugs or smoking or gambling or filthy porn etc. or else you've no chance of getting even a single soul saved.

Sorry I didn't see your reply.
Are you taking about yourself or about people in general with learning disabilities?

The gospel can be taught to young children and to people with severe learning disabilities.
They can be saved by their faith in Jesus.

How can someone with disabilities or severe illness preach Christianity?
By the quality of their life, by their willingness to talk about spiritual things.

Disability does not prevent the Holy Spirit baptism, neither does physical disability.
The Christian witness of someone whose life is limited by disability is more effective than the witness of someone who has it all.

We don't save people, we only point people to Jesus, answer their questions etc it is God who saves and he can and will use those willing to serve him.

 

[Desperate62]

Hi, I'm talking about both here, both myself, and others too. Surely not everyone can witness, what about those who are severely disabled with something like severe misophonia so other folk's exuberance is absolute torture so they can't fit in and can't go to church, or have any enjoyment or happiness and what about those who have only limited capacity and can't make serious decisions as they don't understand important stuff, or what about someone suffering with severe cognitive deficit(s) and can't even speak, or read, but can only make sounds, and they're stuck in a wheelchair with their head and/or their limbs stuck at awkward angles and are dependant on carers? And what about me, I can't go to church at the moment because I'm infected with a dreadful infectious virus which has no medical cure and it cannot be sanitised from any surfaces or objects with any normal sanitisers, not even strong stuff like san izal or jeyes fluid etc. or industrial beach! And I'm desperately seeking the Lord's help as I know He can cure it but I just can't reach Him, and I've never had the great life changing experience that countless millions of others have right from day one, but I committed myself to the Lord more than 38 YEARS ago, and I don't have any "quality of life" either but just an awful wretched forcibly isolated existence all alone and can't have any company or the support available in a church. And the Bible says "Wherever two or three are gathered in My name, I am there with them", so that suggests that there must be at least two people together, not on your own, well how on earth can I possibly have any company while so infected, and of course it means no-one can lay hands on me for healing. So what am I supposed to do? And I want to get others saved as it's really important and we're all supposed to try and do so, but you have to be biologically safe at least, as well as free to communicate and have quality of life etc.

 

[Who me]

Could you please try to separate your paragarahs as solid blocks of print are difficult to read.

I'm sorry that you are unable to attend church.
Is this a life long problem or a more recent incident?

Do you have carers who call and if so could your church arrange for visitors to call?

"And I'm desperately seeking the Lord's help as I know He can cure it but I just can't reach Him! " You don't have to reach God or Jesus,

For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. ~ 1 Peter 3:12a
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” ~ 1 Corinthians 12:9

Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. ~ Hebrews 4:16

Just as Jesus reached out to save us, so he does listen to us, as to why you haven't got the answer you want I don't know, all I know is that God is your strength, your peace and your hope.

 

[Desperate62]

Unfortunately I'm not so familiar with typing or technology, so I've no idea how to type in paragraphs, that should be obvious from what I've written. And any typing is an absolute nightmare for me because of all the outrageous stunts constantly pulled on me that foul it up. And while I've always had problems with church and never been able to enjoy it at least there was a time, now long distant when I could attend, but over the years things have happened to me which made it more and more impossible and now this wretched virus has made it impossible to attend anywhere, not just church. And of course I don't have carers, how can I? Both me and my home and possessions and fixtures etc. will be too infected and it's contagious and it's worrying, and this virus can't be simply sanitised, it's not like covid. And you assume that I have a church, well how can I? I need support but no-one wants to know if I can't attend there, you've always got to be safe and compatible etc. and I'm neither. And you say "Let us with confidence...", but what if that so essential confidence is withheld as it always is with me, how can I just produce it out of thin air, honestly all the other Christians just assume that every other one is just like them, totally free of any binding and problems, and I can't help noticing how the Bible is written for those who are so totally free and have a totally full share of the Holy Spirit and thoroughly powerful experience with God etc., and it makes me feel so excluded when I try and read it, it reads just like some kind of exclusive club which I find myself so ruthlessly locked out of no matter how loyal to the Lord I try to be, and I've tried to be Christian for more than 38 YEARS and of course I've prayed the sinner's prayer with witnesses, and been baptised in water, but still don't have the great life changing experience that's always so instant with anyone else, and why not? That's why I've registered here, to try and find answers I so desperately need. And no-one can live with the awful things I've got forced on me, and neither can I, honestly I can't even eat sandwiches any more, or crisps, or do anything like I used to as recently as only just over three months ago because of the wretched virus and the complications it causes. No-one has any idea of what an awful wretched existence I have all shut away behind closed doors in total isolation which no-one else ever sees, but the Lord must be aware of it.

 

[timf]

Adam and Eve were ticked, but they still charted a course after their own desires. At this point humanity came to have self-seeking and selfishness as our defining characteristic. God cursed the ground not so much as punishment, but to help us by being forced to work together in spite of our individual ambitions. Sadly, this was insufficient as everyone's thoughts were only evil continuously.

With the flood God changed our environmental circumstance to be much more difficult Additionally man's life expectancy was shortened to a maximum of 120 years. This may have included diseases and genetic defects.. One might see in this not so much punishment but forcing us to care for each other. This would create an environment where the light God have to give could be received.

One might see that since the Industrial Revolution prosperity and leisure have increased. We have slowly begun to return to the state of disregard for each other we had before the flood.

Things like cancer, disabilities, old age, and retardation are all conditions that require families to provide the love and material care. Today we live with diminished families and the assumption that it is the responsibility of the government to care for people.

 

[brad 45]

Jesus does use handicapped people for different functions. Of course if the disability is severe, it doesn't merit beyond the pulpit.

1 Corinthians chapter 12:1. Now concerning spiritual gifts I would have you be not ignorant.

Gifts has been added here, its better translation of spiritual things.. were looking at the holy Spirit.

12::4. Now there are diversity of gifts, but the same Spirit.

There are many different gifts that are placed within each Christian, and only one holy Spirit of God. There is also lot of evil spirits that are from Satan. Unbelievers have evil spirits. Some pretend to be Christian and try to fool the saint's.

Its easy to listen to Satan's spirits and be deceived when you have no spiritual discernment. The holy Spirit will never go against God's word. Evil and demonic spirits know God's word and they distort the truth. Satan and evil spirits want to win you in there camp. If they enjoy listening to traditions of men or doing drugs or occult, God will allow Satan to educate them. Mabey they will come to there senses after Satan roughs them up.

12:12:5. And there are different of administrations, but the same Lord.

Many different ministries of the word of God, however, there is only one holy Spirit. Gift of faith mabey only gift some Christian people have. Its just as important as gift of teaching or another gift.

All gifts are important to body of Christ and every member doesn't have same gifts. We have different spiritual gifts.

12::6. And there are diversity of operations, but it is the same God which works in all.

Could be a evangelists or type writer or singing in choir or giving smile to others. The eye is important as the ear or feet. They are needed to make up body of Christ.

Also seed planters are just as important as those behind the pulpits. Every one carrys there own weight. God's word is our standard. All men and women have problems and weaknesses. And we do fall short some times of God's standard. We don't look at man, but to the gift that's from the holy Spirit.

12::8. For no one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge, by the same Spirit.

Some have wisdom to express wisdom from God's word. Gift from holy Spirit. Another can express spiritual matters within word of God or express wisdom into knowledge. Shepherds can take word of God that is complicated for our comprehension and help them understand. Its holy Spirit that reveals the wisdom and knowledge to the one that has gift from Jesus.

12: :12. For as the body is one, and has many members and all the members of that one body being many are one body also in Christ.

Its necessary for body of Christ members to be there and function, for the body to be healthy. Again, every one carrys there own weight. If unbelievers are in church or study groups and cause trouble, they are to be removed quickly.

If eyes fail, then entire body of Christ stumbles in darkness and if feet are festered and sore, whole body won't move. Don't allow gangre to spread in church or study groups. Trouble makers have to be dealt with. Can't have disruptions and problems. Satan will send false brethren to try to contaminate or cause divisions. Keep body of Christ healthy.

12:14. For the body is not one member, but many.

True faith elevates you above denominationalism or division and you become part of the body of Christ. It requires all the members to make up the body of Christ.

Those who are handicapped know what im saying. When one part of body of Christ is missing, it hinders body of Christ. When you try to fit many denominationans together, its like fusing in members of body that doesn't fit. When a artificial limb is used, it helps but it isn't the same as having the real part that is missing or not functioning.

Handicapped Christian people are not indispensable. We have different responsibilities.

12:21. And the eye can't say unto the hand, I have no need of thee, nor against the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Handicapped Christian people have seen in reality how important that all the parts of body of Christ are to each other. It doesn't matter how important you are or think you are. Jesus made you as you are to fit in the body of Christ.

12:23. And those members of the body of Christ, which we think to be less honorable, upon thee we bestow more abundant homor and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

Even parts we think are far less of honor, we keep clothes on them covered. There are parts of the body of Christ that need more special attention. But the handicapped people are just as important as the other parts of body of Christ. Show respect and support for one another. Feeling superior and pride has no place in body of Christ.

12:24. For our comely parts have need, but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant homor to that part which lacked.

Jesus adjusting the entire body of Christ to be able to compensate for what is lacking in another part. He gives more homor and dignity to those members part of body of Christ that don't have honor.

12:25. That there should not be no schism in the body, but that members should have same care for one another.

Schism means clash and there is no room envy or arguing. The kidney doesn't clash over work of the eye. Each member knows there own duties. We are to have compassion and care about each other. There is no room for ego trips or jealousy.

 

[Rxlx]

Very reassuring, but isn't it the case that the Lord only gives his full Holy Spirit baptism to those who are fully fit and able, i.e. those who are able to fully mature and so easily be so miles above all manner of demanding grown up life commitments, like the typical mr. average? but not those like me who are so backward and so undeveloped,

You sound more like a troll with every diatribe!
You post a long list of abilities but claim to be backward and unacceptable.

 

[Desperate62]

You sound more like a troll with every diatribe!
You post a long list of abilities but claim to be backward and unacceptable.

What a gross misunderstanding again! Yes, I do have some abilities, but it's all only very limited, I can only do stuff I'm confident with, I'm not remotely professional in any way, like when I used to fix old VHS video recorders and old analogue TV sets, I could only repair some faults on some models, but not all as some were far too complex, and I had only very limited equipment, and only limited access to service manuals etc. a full set up would've been far too costly and way beyond my means, and those repairs only lasted until about mid 2006, then the trade counters I went to for parts closed down and the technology completely changed and went way beyond my ability to repair it, it's not a diy job any more unless you have the skill and patience, and the confidence of a watchmaker which I certainly don't, I'm not going to try and stare down a microscope with a pair of tiny tweezers, no chance! And in the long distant past I have done a few basic jobs like rewiring a church, and fitting a new water supply there, and a few kitchen units and sink, including plumbing it in, and I also repaired several of their fluorescent light fittings too, and helped deal with woodworm in the floors there as I was equipped for that. And I did various jobs at the Pastor's home as well, over 20-odd years, even long after that church closed down and got sold and became someone's private residence. And I've got tons of work outstanding on my own home too which never gets done, even though I have the abilities to do it and I can afford it no problem there, but I'm just far too overwhelmed with it all and I can't help it, and none of this trouble in any way makes me remotely "inferior" at all as far too many so wrongly think. Just because I have some limited abilities doesn't mean I can do almost anything just like so many professionals can. And I find your attitude very hateful and condescending, being Christian or professional etc. does NOT make anyone remotely "superior", remember "The Lord opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble", and remember 2 Chronicles, chapter 7, verse 14, "If my people, who are called by My name, will HUMBLE themselves...".